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Exploring Good, Evil, and Reconciliation: Between Paul Johnson and Bjorn Krondorfer

What's ;Happening With Division Today


In this week's episode of the Optimistic American, Paul Johnson and Bjorn Krondorfer, the Director of Northern Arizona University's Martin-Springer Institute, engage in a conversation about Bjorn's personal journey, his groundbreaking studies, and their joint exploration of the inherent presence of good and evil in humanity.

Bjorn Krondorfer: A Journey Through Darkness and Light

Bjorn Krondorfer's personal journey is one of immense significance. Shaped by his own family history and driven by a deep commitment to understanding the roots of genocide, Krondorfer dedicated his life to extensive research on the Holocaust, extremist movements, and the complex dynamics of reconciliation. His studies on the communication between the children of Holocaust survivors and the children of German Nazi members shed light on the long-lasting impact of these historical events and the intricate webs of guilt, trauma, and responsibility that persist across generations.

The Inherent Presence of Good and Evil

One of the central themes in the conversation between Johnson and Krondorfer was the exploration of the inherent presence of good and evil within every individual. They delved into the complex factors that contribute to the transformation of ordinary individuals into agents of violence and hate during genocides. By studying historical atrocities like the Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide, Krondorfer highlights the role of propaganda as a common denominator. The power of manipulation and misinformation in shaping public opinion and fueling extremist ideologies becomes alarmingly evident.

Propaganda and Genocide: A Disturbing Connection:

Krondorfer and Johnson engaged in a profound analysis of the role of propaganda in genocides throughout history. From Hitler's Nazi regime to the Rwandan genocide, the conversation explored the chilling similarities in the tactics employed by those seeking to incite hatred and division. By examining the mechanics of propaganda, they underscored the importance of remaining vigilant against the manipulation of truth, recognizing its potential to ignite unimaginable horrors.

Current Divisions in America: Towards Reconciliation:

Drawing on his extensive research and experience, Krondorfer shifted the conversation toward the present-day divisions within America. While acknowledging the significance of forgiveness, he emphasized the vital need for reconciliation practices. By embracing a holistic approach that seeks to understand the deep-rooted causes of division and engage in transformative dialogue, Krondorfer shed light on the path toward healing and unity.


The conversation between Paul Johnson and Bjorn Krondorfer is a captivating exploration of the depths of human nature, the lasting impact of historical atrocities, and the importance of reconciliation in our divided world. Their thought-provoking exchange presents an opportunity for listeners to gain insights into the complexities of genocides, the role of propaganda, and the pursuit of reconciliation. I urge you to listen to this enlightening podcast episode, which not only educates but also sparks a deep reflection on our collective responsibility to promote understanding and peace in our societies.

By delving into Bjorn Krondorfer's personal journey, his groundbreaking research on genocides and extremist movements, and the profound discussions on good, evil, propaganda, and reconciliation, this podcast episode provides a powerful lens through which we can view our past, present, and future. Let us engage in this dialogue, challenging ourselves to learn from history and strive towards a more compassionate and harmonious world.

Hierarchy of Agency


Don't Forget To Watch The Full Episode Here!


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